Can the School of the Future be available to any child without any admission screening? What does it take?

It’s my dream, to be honest. In fact, that’s what a lot of private schools are scolded for – selectivity, when you select the most talented people to go to school. I don’t really believe in this model because bullying tends to flourish in such schools. The harshest emotional and physical violence happens in those schools where everyone tries to outdo each other, and where there is incredible rivalry, unfortunately. That’s when, in principle, a lot of people give up and get off the finish line, because it’s impossible to study in that rivalry for too long.

I think that non-selective school access is definitely not an issue for the next 10–15 years, unfortunately.

If you were creating the School of the Future today, what do you think is the best way to do it?

Any good project starts with defining your target audience. I always divide my projects into "whats” and "hows.” It’s the same here: what we want from the school, and how we want to do it. These are two related things.

Next we need the recipient to find the sender, that is, for the parent request to match what the school has to offer. This, by the way, is the advantage of private schools. When people come there, it’s because they already have a good idea of what they want.

Next comes the most important stage – finding staff. I don’t support the view that the situation with teachers in regular public schools is very bad. There are a lot of good teachers out there, you just have to look for them and get them out of the schools where they feel bad.

Which of the existing schools in Russia, in your opinion, are closest to the School of the Future? Oddly enough, I think it was the Tubelsky School under Alexander Naumovich himself. It was a school that was way ahead of its time. Maybe also Dima Zitser’s Orange School in St. Petersburg, because, indeed, it has a model of learning that is built on absolute freedom. Frankly, I haven’t seen anything like that anywhere else.

This may sound surprising, but this is also School No. 42 in Belgorod. It struck me that you can put together a community of teachers with the right attitudes and teaching humanity, 4C skills[4] in a perfectly ordinary municipal school. I wouldn’t call it the School of the Future outright, but it’s a very valuable example to me.

What about foreign schools?

I won’t be original here, I really like the Finnish schools. For example, Saunalahti and Ressu. Or the Swedish Kunskapsskolan School, which I mentioned earlier. There is also La Source School, which is the last one I describe in my book "The Other School.”

And another school that I remember for its views on teachers and for what our Western colleagues call forward thinking is Ørestad, a "gymnasium without walls” in Denmark, which makes an honest attempt at open space, where you learn to interact with other kids, even through space, from high school on. That is, you are forced to learn with others side by side. From the perspective of the director of this school, empathy is one of the main skills of the 21st century. We often talk about personality, but we don’t support this idea in any way. And that school is built around the idea of the child being at the center of the educational process.

Let's talk about humane pedagogy. In my opinion, this is a somewhat strange phenomenon, because everyone knows about Shalva Amonashvili and his followers, yet there are fewer than ten accredited schools on the Center for Humane Pedagogy website. Is humane pedagogy worth taking into the future, and if so, how shall it be done?

I love Shalva Aleksandrovich very much, especially after he called "The Other School” his Bible. After those words, I can basically call my career completed (smiles). But I think the packaging is the issue. Behind such a beautiful name is a very simple thing. It’s a love for children. Any teacher who treats his or her students humanely is, in my opinion, a humane pedagogue.

I would act on the methodology of the Finnish director Lina Liusvaara, which at one time struck me very much. When she and I walked around the Ressu school, I saw that for all its innovative approach, there were a lot of classes with the classical seating arrangement of students. I told her: "It’s so unlike the image of the Finnish school that we know." The principal told me: "Because we think it’s wrong to break everything that’s been done before us."

Right now, for example, I’m making a big film about Lev Vygotsky. In fact, it is amazing how much we use Vygotsky's works without even realizing it. In the U. S. I will be in touch with two people who worked with Vygotsky and Lurie. They are James Werche and Michael Cole – people who still remember that Soviet model. It’s very important for me to show in this film a person who had a great influence on all of us, and we don’t even realize it.

I will also be talking to Elena Bodrova, who lives in America. She wrote the book "Tools of the Mind" together with Deborah Leong. She took Vygotsky's teachings and everything he said about children and repackaged those ideas. Now she is taking American schools and kindergartens by storm. The book became a bestseller, and it rediscovered Lev Vygotsky for the Americans.

We can do the same with humane pedagogues. When we open their writings, we realize that it is all written in very outdated language for the modern reader. It takes a person who has the talent to repackage their ideas, to make them mainstream.

If you summarize everything you have said, what will change in the school in the long run? Firstly, the teachers. There will be fewer graduates of pedagogical universities, and more specialists from different fields.

Secondly, parents will work more in tandem with teachers, the notorious triangle "child – teacher – student" will finally be closed. We will definitely get there through conflicts and difficulties.

I’ve also asked the question "Where do we get teachers?" to various principals, and School 18 in Bratsk is recruiting teachers from the parent community. In many regions, people are interested in part-time teaching jobs. It seems to me that this is the next step, when parents become more involved in the educational process.

A very important point is trust in the student and trust in the teacher. For example, during the pandemic, good teachers knew that students were still in class, even with their webcams off.

Naturally, I think we will come to a personalized education path and the interests of the child will be taken into account. My book began with the school being rebuked for its lack of connection to real life. From the saying that we teach kids a thousand things, but when they come out of school, they don’t know the difference between a mortgage and a loan. I am happy to see my book at the principals’ offices in many schools in many different regions. They say: "You know, the idea of tying every subject to real life as much as possible is so important these days." These are often obvious things. It is pretty obvious with foreign languages, but how do you do it in math class? The teacher can explain speed not through proverbial notations such as X and Y, but through the speed of the Internet and the weight of the file you need to download. I think there will definitely be more examples of this in the future.